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Updated: Mangia! restaurant closes at City Center in Carmel

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  • Dan Crabtree

    sadly lots of walkby lookers…very few actual customers…no business can last with this …

  • Bob

    You know, I do not know which is worse: the fact another business dream is put on hold or the fact that tax dollars were used to build the garage for a private developer’s semi private use (similar to the arrangement with the Nash Building with the same developer) or the fact that somebody somewhere decided how many spaces a business would be “allocated” – again, seeing how it was built with taxes. How does that work?

  • Susan

    Hubbard & Cravens can not be far behind, it is always a ghost town and they take 10 minutes to make a cup of coffee to go.

  • RKW50

    People want to park outside the restaurant, and walk in. This was a TERRIBLE location for them. Matt the Millers seems to have the secret, and seems to be doing well, but lets be honest….they are taking up most of the convenient parking places. Good for them! Divvy’s will be gone eventually. Even though the owner is a City councilman. Sweetheart rents can only last so long. Frankly, I think the City Center is a terrible location for businesses that need convenient parking and walk by traffic. We have even stopped dining in the old downtown Carmel, due to the parking. Who wants to park in a garage, and walk a block, when one can park right outside so many other restaurants. I hope Roma does well, in the old Mohawk village center. (now called Monon). Hint to our city leaders. You should have put that building back 100 feet, and had surface parking surrounding it.

  • Rick Smith

    After Mr. Tyler’s letter I have emailed the following to the Mayor and Council President Eric Seidensticker.

    Full comments at : http://carmelchatter.com/showthread.php?1524-Brainard-Carter-Finkam-Worrell-s-Leadership-Failure/page12

  • RKW50

    Lee,
    Great letter, and I for one will miss your restaurant. My family having past been in the restaurant business for over 40 years, I was frankly concerned the day I saw you move. Not because of your food, or decor, but as I mentioned in a post below, because of the parking situation. This same situation will be happening in the old town area (arts and design district). People need convenient parking, but the city (and Pedcor) just don’t see this. Unfortunately, as you described, we didn’t move with you to the newer location. We also have stopped dining in the old town area. BTW, we stopped dining at Ambrosia in BR for the same reason. Perhaps we will try the new location. I’m afraid this will continue to happen to other locally owned businesses, especially restaurants, who get baited by some of these developers, and the city, due to their “vision.”

  • Bruce Cordingley

    I have always been hesitant to participate in these discussions since many people who do participate do not identify who they are and I did not want to so participate other than by identifying who I am and knowing who I was discussing a topic with. In this discussion Lee has identified himself and I think it would be appropriate to respond to some of his points. By way of background I am a substantial investor in Carmel City Center as well as president of Carmel City Center, LLC. As I am sure that Lee would acknowledge my wife, Denise, and I were more than frequent guests at his restaurant having dinner there often at least a couple of times a week. As a result it is not only as an investor but also personally that I was saddened that Lee was not able to succeed.
    While Lee has indicated a number of reasons in addition to parking that contributed to his problems I think there were at least three others. However, I am only going to comment on the parking matter and some of the things that Pedcor did to try to make this work for Lee.
    As to the parking because I knew that Lee considered parking to be a concern when we went to his restaurant I always parked away from it after leaving my wife out at the restaurant. I was always able to find a place to park on the motor court and then walked to the restaurant. Before entering the restaurant I always noticed Lee’s car which was parked next to the restaurant. I could never figure out if parking was a problem why he did that. I am sure that I am much older than Lee and I had no problem parking and then walking to Mangia.
    Lee discusses the 4 spaces that are right outside the private elevator (paid for by Pedcor) that we reserved for Mangia. When I learned of Mangia’s closing I asked my staff if Lee had asked us for more spaces and was told that he had not. I would add that those 4 spaces are on private property of Pedcor, the improvement and marking of which was paid for by Pedcor.
    Lee failed to mention that Pedcor, paid for complementary valet parking right outside the door to Mangia. We only suspended it (and replaced it with the reserve spaces across from the private elevator into Mangia) when we were only getting 2 to 4 cars using it a night and since the valet operation took up that many spaces so it was obvious that was not the solution assuming that there was a problem.
    On many occasions including Palladium events, Mangia, divvy and Matt the Miller would all be full and turning away customers. Since guests were able to find places to park (although it may have been on the surface parking lot to the southwest of Mangia (and as a result is close to the Mangia elevator) which was also paid for by Pedcor and is on Pedcor land) it is difficult to understand how there could be a parking problem on nights when there was not a Palladium or similar event. As my wife and I attend many Palladium events I nearly always look to see if the surface parking was full and it never was.
    I would also like to comment on some of the things that Pedcor did for Mangia. In the beginning Lee was very gracious to acknowledge that Denise and often were guests at Mangia. We often brought with us many business and personal guests to introduce them to Mangia. Pedcor had most of its business meetings at Mangia and bought at least ten thousands of dollars of gift certificates from Mangia for our employees and others. Two weeks before Mangia closed we asked them to come and visit with us to discuss the situation and they declined to do so until after they had closed.
    We do wish Lee and his family well and are saddened that they will not be continuing their restaurant at City Center. However, since his closing at least three very successful restauranteurs have already indicated an interest in opening in the space that Mangia occupied. They are all aware of these matters but based on early discussions with them I believe that it is likely that we will soon find a very good restaurant to occupy the former Mangia space.
    We invite guests of Carmel City Center to use the complementary valet parking on the northside of Carmel City Center if they are having a problem finding a place to park at Carmel City Center.
    Bruce Cordingley

    • Kate2014

      The man lost his business and I find your response to be petty, defensive, and unnecessary. Both City Center and Main Street have businesses closing right and left because the concepts are flawed. Retail centers need “anchors” to succeed and neither area has an anchor. PS…parking at City Center is awful. My husband and I don’t even consider going there for dinner because of the parking.

  • Rick Smith

    Bruce, I appreciate your weighing in on this. Often the reality of a situation is in the middle. It’s good you provided another perspective to the story. It is good to know the Valet Parking on the North side is available for all patrons. We all have a personal interest in a successful City Center but none of us are as personally invested. Keep the lines of communication open. It can only help improve community understanding of a challenging issue. I live within blocks of City Center. We chose the area as much due to the development plans and location as our liking the lot and house. It is a great area and full of potential. We welcome market driven development in the Heart of the Carmel City Center.Thanks for your input.

  • Bruce Cordingley

    Rick: Thank you for your gracious comments and your interest in Carmel City Center. I think that you are correct that I should engage in these discussions more often and I will endeavor to do so. Bruce Cordingley

  • Rick Smith

    The Mayor has had 2 days to acknowledge receipt of my email.

    I find it rude that I have not received some type of acknowledgement after 2 working days that the Mayor has received, forwarded or trashed my request.

    Council President Seidensticker did respond and forwarded it to the appropriate people on the CRC.

    If I do not hear a response from someone I am going to take further action. This information I am requesting should be public knowledge. What are they trying to hide?

    It might help if some of you who are not already somehow indebted to or afraid of the Mayor, trust me I can see many situations where it would make no sense to be anything but anonymous, would pick up the request and publicly ask the same questions.

    It appears that I have been marginalized to below the status that commands even a response let alone the respect you would expect a sitting Mayor to have for a citizen of his city.

    How many total parking garage spaces? how many public? Cost/parking garage space total? cost/garage space public? Public Financing provided? Amount subsidized. Building owner of record.

    Who maintains the structure, maintenance and reconstruction ( short term/long term )? etc.

    The email I am referring to is half way down the page.

    Seriously Mayor demonstrate some professionalism! You preach excellence, do you agree that we should not expect the same of our Leaders?

    You build an acoustically perfect $180,000,000 Performing Arts Center and yet you personally demonstrate a total lack of taste.

  • Rick Smith

    Just an update. I resent an email to Mayor Brainard and Council President Seidensticker again on this matter this morning. The Mayor gave me a quick response. Apparently I had some misinformation. I appreciate his rapid response and look forward to the CRC accurate information. Thank you Mayor Brainard for getting personally involved.